They represent a fair range of ages, from late teens to our age... but surprisingly not many older. The names used are usually non-descript, but when I've used a female persona, I've been bombarded with hits... and when I drop a panty question on them, they almost all admit that they've: peeked up dresses at panties, stolen panties from hampers/laundry baskets/dresser drawers, and have masturbated with them secretly.
About half seem to be married, and almost none admit to having risked talking with their wives about it... although there have been a small number who tell outrageous stories about spousal involvement (which I tend not to believe is real in most). Virtually all (save a couple who want to keep this a private pleasure, unadorned by any other person's involvement, male or female) have fantasies of having an understanding female become a part of their lives who would be willing to act out whatever is the operative fantasy they use while masturbating with and/or wearing the panties.
When probed about the fantasies, most get shy, and are relatively inarticulate about the details of how a woman could be involved in this solitary panty activity. They are fixated on finding that woman but not sure what to do with her once they have her, or they have One Event they can see happening, but have very little beyond it. This is probably because we all tend to have an event or two that we like to replay, and hate to waste the precious time we have masturbating to un-formed fantasy material.
However when I suggested fantasy lines beyond their own favorites, they all were more than ready to have the female take over to lead them into a new, richer level of partner activities. They seemed split (no sense here of if it is even or skewed to one side more) on who needed to be the dominant/leader character in the panty activities. Some seemed most comfortable with it being male dominant, while a significant number wanted the female to either be a true "dominant" or at least a knowing, loving and understanding gentle dom. Most, aside from the solid submissives, liked the idea of switching roles between dom/sub in panty games.
Histories of these guys are pretty varied, from the ones who for whatever reason (and there are lots of key starting events) started being attracted to panties as early as 6-7yrs old, to some who had only recently discovered them (many of these guys seem to be solo types, in some cases having recently lost a lover/wife). Mid-late teens seem to be a pretty common age for awareness to have started; given the raging hormones of that age group, it makes sense that they'd be rubbing up against almost anything related to a girl/pussy... and consequently they make the connection between the fabric/smell of her panties and the real thing.
Smell is definitely almost a universal element, as are the visual stains and physical (tactile) signs of discharge. Fabrics are skewed to Nylon in the older crowd (over 30) but significantly toward Cotton in the younger set... reinforcing what you and I know are the fabrics of choice of those relative female age groups. Each fabric preference group waxes poetic about the advantages of their panty choice in the same sort of ways... although the Cotton panty group seems more attracted to the scent spectrum than the tactile features. The Nylon panty group on the other hand is almost universally fixed first and foremost on the tactile pleasures, followed by scent.
All of them use about the same range of methods of masturbation; some prefer to masturbate while wearing panties... and using the pair they are wearing by stroking themselves thru them, while the majority wrap them around themselves... most times in a very specific manner, while some prefer to lay them out on a surface (bed/floor) and lay on top of them (often using two pair of nylon panties turned so they offer maximum pleasure), and some just draw them loosely across their bodies.
Virtually all of these guys who had any length of panty theft experience described the same fear of being caught, and had developed the same care in how they removed the panties from a dresser drawer or hamper... almost memorizing the scene so they could replace the garment without it being disturbed. A fair number like to carefully masturbate with the clean panties from the drawer, and then put them back in place. There is a split whether they leave a spot of semen in the crotch panel (almost never any other place on the panty) or are fastidious about leaving no sign of their contact.
There seemed to be an almost universal fear/wish about being caught. The "rush" that comes from seeing and touching and masturbating with a woman's panties contributes to the intensity of their orgasms, but the need to be caught by an understanding woman in this compromising position seems to be something they all would be willing to risk. Fantasies about the scenarios related to this seem to be a major part of the masturbatory fodder too.
Most also had managed to "trick" at least one sex partner into using her panties as a prop during sex... most often having her leave them on. A majority described the need to have their partner leave her panties on during extended foreplay activities, including stimulating her orally through her panty crotch panel, and rubbing their erection against the panty material while they distracted her with other touching/kissing. Virtually everyone described a need to be masturbated with panties by a woman during sex, or instead of sex, and a fair number wanted both partners to wear panties during sex... sometimes with the panty-penetration-orgasms as the penultimate pleasure.
Real-world Partner involvement was the minority experience, although most seemed to have had at least one encounter with panty-sex activity. Most did not have a current partner (wife/girl friend/mistress) who willingly participated in positive panty play, but all seemed willing to do the work to try to transform their current partner. Sadly, a pretty high percentage felt it would be hopeless... most often because their partners were too conservative/shy/wounded to see the playful part of having a man like to be pleasured with her underwear. On the other hand, most still expressed a willingness to try some roundabout methods of getting her to participate (most often without any "confessions" about how deeply rooted this need/experience was).
*********************
I'll try to put together more thoughts another time, but wanted to put these down now so I don't forget to do it... and because I think it also impacts some of the decisions you are making re: MIP films... as well as your Main-line films. You keep hitting the target so well with what you do. I suspect that there are other edges you can explore just as you did with the "wet" series, that will increase the attractiveness of both your products as well as your site.
The POV stuff I've been pitching seems to me to be a potential vehicle to explore the edges while keeping the quality/"insider" edge you have... some of the stuff I've put down here seems like it's just a reiteration of what we both know all too well, but just as you find it interesting/moving to get letters from the "front", I think it will all eventually have an impact on what you film/shoot next.
Looking forward to chatting again before the end of the week.
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Now regarding your rather astute observation on our exploration of the soft fetishes — you are probably absolutely correct — this stuff appears to be uncharted by the traditional psychological disciplines, pop psychology and touched on by only a few (notably Dian Hanson at LS) in the Adult business.
When you scan thru the dreck online, it is clear that almost all the stuff out there is just a business that uses a convenient and productive Hook (panties, slips, incest, whatever). There are a very few run by what appears to be more reputable types who are some combination of true believer/business person (Sonia, the Virginian, Sylvia etc.). But almost none (at least that I have found) take the next (logical?) step of combining a solid presentation of fetish-related products with literature and an attempt to gain an insider's understanding of the fetish itself.
You have begun to not only create the "home space" we've discussed in detail, but to also help those who visit "home" describe what their personal experience is/has been. The stories are not just fantasies or biographical sketches, they are helping define the edges of the panty fetish experience. Guys are relating not only what they've done, but the rituals they Must act out and Fantasies they have — that they may not be able to act out.
This is a study that is a bit like the Impressionist painters who adopted the Pointillist style... up close, it does not depict much — if anything. However, the further you step back, the more you can see — until finally you grasp the entire thing. (see George Seurat "Sunday Afternoon on le Grand Jatte Island). (whoa! Sorry about that, the old Art Major just burst past the Student of Fritz Perls. What a pushy type.)
Actually, I have read and read the scholarly and not so scholarly writings (even Nancy French's Men in Love which interviewed many men, and only obliquely touches on panty fetishes) and most don't have any real understanding of this (or other) fetishes. Outside of the regurgitation of Freud's or other psychotherapeutic icon's theories... I have yet to find a single serious writer who has approached these soft fetishes directly.
These writers seem afraid of the topics, and instead of interviewing the fetishists themselves for information, they lump them into broad, cartoon-like categories and move quickly to summaries. Perhaps they feel they will "catch" the fetish if they explore it, or they may have had feelings about the fetish object and are afraid of being exposed, or maybe they have a deep phobic-repulsion for the fetish (again based on a tendency toward it).
You Sir, being the Panty King (of all media) should keep all the doors open to see where this will go. I think the idea of a survey is a logical next step. I'll happily construct it in cooperation with you so we can at least target areas of interest to both your business side as well as our heart side. I also think as visitors begin to respond to the issue related portions of the site — Tontine, Woody's Musings, If You Build It... etc. You will begin to Pull Out more and more about the broader picture of Who We Are... as a Panty Fetish Community. Ultimately we will help inform the formal side of the world about who we are — since they don't have the interest or courage to find out for themselves.
On a side note, there is probably a book here for us to think about — which I really believe could cross over into the general market — since we know how prevalent the panty fetish truly is — hmmm, wonder what the family would think of seeing you and I sitting next to Letterman or Good Morning America hawking our book "The Panty Fetishist Next Door" (or "Within"). Maybe we could get Cary Grant's estate to finance our research, and Marv Albert to give an interview quote for the dust cover. ;)
Phew! This is too damned early to be thinking this hard... I'm going to get another cup of coffee before my brain explodes.
Later, Woody
Delivered-To: MIP.INQ@llapa.com
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:04:16
From: syd
Subject: questions
can panties be tailored, a clumsy me, hand, machine, tailor (cost) for a weight change, fitting, adding an aperture?
are panties a hazard for testicles? tightness esp. since they were not bagged to hold male genitals. how about drop out. Will dies? will God strike me dead?
Any thoughts on day-long wear including regular size and tight fitting?
why are higher priced panties more rewarding? Olga and Vanity Fair. Have you ever done a Consumer's Report on brands and traits?
What's the gay/straight pantiest count? What's the analysis of panties purists vs other miscellaneous garments tossed into the drawers? Where can I find correspondence including the answers to this Question?
Well, Mr. Bill;
Responses to this letter should probably be handled by you - but being an opinionated sort, I'll offer a few replies to this interesting letter:
#1 This is really an opportunity for you to pitch your upcoming product... "Pretty Pretty Panties". I am assuming that the mention of an "aperture" would be similar to your "sleeve" or "pouch" feature. Also tailoring an undersized garment is probably a problem because there is seldom much excess material in the manufacture. Cutting a side seam and binding the edges, and attaching a free floating elastic loop and button might give some relief.
#2 The only tightness hazard coming from wearing panties is if they are worn a size too small, they will bind you... in the same way as wearing traditional men's briefs will if you delay moving into the next larger size ... as you "bulk-up". As for worrying about God, he after all provided the mental gifts to the DuPont scientist who invented nylon. No problem there at all from my view... "Just Do It!"
#3 Day long panty wearing only hazard could be the constant state of arousal tipping off those around the wearer. (sorry) Too tight is uncomfortable, leaves binding lines, and sore testicles, nothing more from what I can tell. A long shot problem may be if the wearer is also trying to create a baby, in which case the internal temp of the testicles rises with constricting undergarments of any kind... and reduces sperm count (I think it's true, not folklore)... As for me, a tight fit gives less enjoyment of the nylon material, which was designed to flow loosely. (A slightly biased editorial comment).
#4 As for higher priced garments offering more pleasure... it's a fact that the quality of better brand panties is a function of using higher quality nylon fabric, better lace and appliqués and more demanding quality control. Dime-store panties are cheap and made of thicker cheaper, nylon thread, sewn quickly following a crude pattern. VF, Olga and others get premium prices for their higher quality. Cuts of these better panties are still based at least in part on long established styles... and there is something that quickens the heart (at least yours and mine) at the sight of a nylon brief whose waistband tucks in and fits nice and high on that tiny waist, and if we're exceptionally lucky, even covering the belly button.
#5 Finally, the gay/straight mix in the panty community is a misunderstanding as I see it. It's like mixing apples and oranges - they may look alike, but upon closer examination, it's plain that they come from different stock. Although the differences may seem merely academic, they are very significant. I won't get into a long discussion here now, but Panty Fetishists are bonded to the garment itself and it becomes the focus of their sexual activity; transvestites and others gain excitement from the wearing and role playing, and gays focus on the same sex person, where panties seem to be simply an accouterment. There's a lot of misunderstanding about panty fetishists. To the layperson, there is very little difference between him and a transvestite, a cross dresser, a transsexual or a gay man. To each member of these groups there is a Vast difference between each category, and they in no way want to be MIS-categorized. Panty Fetishists are probably one of the most widely distributed yet most misunderstood groups. In that regard, I am going to construct a survey form which we can use to help us begin to gain an understanding of who we really are as a community. Since so little real research has been done by the traditional psychological community, it is up to us to begin the process ourselves. Bill, I hope within the next couple of weeks to get a first draft to you for review, and hopefully to get up on the site before too long afterwards.
Sorry I rambled on so, but that'll teach you to give me a platform to stand on!
Later, Woody